Welcome to your Body. Remembers pleasure. I'm your host, Rahi Chun. This podcast is devoted to sexual embodiment, intimacy, and the body's innate capacity to heal, feel, and remember pleasure. If something here resonates with you, you're welcome to explore more writings and resources@rahichun.com. And now let's begin.

 In today's interview with Amina Peterson, we explore questions about spaces exploring the sacredness of sexuality.

How is it possible to attune to the authentic consent of the body before developing an intimate connection with our body parts? How can a space be sacred to sexuality if it is not familiar with the ethnic or sociocultural experiences of the sexual beings inhabiting the space? And since safety and belonging is central to the nervous system's, openness and receptivity to pleasure, how safe are tantric and sacred sexuality circles when the space holders are unfamiliar with the racialized experiences of the bodies participating in the spaces they are facilitating.

I am so excited to invite Goddess Amina Peterson to the podcast today. I've been following Amina for a couple of years and it was very fortuitous that I had someone in a recent training who's a dear friend of Amina's, and Kimberly linked this up and we've been communicating since then and working towards collaborating, and I'm very excited to have her on the podcast today.

Goddess Amina Peterson is a force of nature, a sexual revolutionary and erotic abolitionist. I've never heard that term before. I love it. She holds sacred space for our natural and authentic sexual embodiment to be remembered, reclaimed, and honored in a variety of spaces. Some of the experiences that have informed her journey have included serving as a somatic healer, trained in somatic experiencing reiki and yoga, as well as serving as a birth doula.

Sexual surrogate personal trainer and sex coach. She founded the Atlanta Institute of Tantra in 2017, which has become the premier institute for training, certifying and providing resources to sexologists sacred sex workers, sex doulas, cuddle professionals and body workers who specialize in somatic sexology.

It's become a spiritual embodiment organization and community that centers on black women and their pleasure. Amina and the Institute also trains and certifies Somatic Sexologists hosts multi-day bliss retreats and works with clients one-on-one, virtually and in person in Panama City and in Atlanta, as well as mentoring professional Sexologists Goddess Amina.

Thank you for joining us today. It's great to see you. Thank you for having me. It is great to be here. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Awesome. Me too. Amina, I usually start off many interviews by asking about the pivotal experiences that have informed guests with what they're doing now.

And you have such a varied and diverse like influences of experiences having been a birth doula, a sexual surrogate, a personal trainer. But I read in a medium article that you received an lin style massage in 2004 that seemed to have really changed your life and lead you to working with sexual embodiment.

I'd love to know what was that experience that seemed to have influenced your trajectory. Yeah. It's interesting. I often, I wish I could find the woman that, that was, that whose hands were on my body. It was a time in my life where things were, I was young. And I was a go-getter of sorts. So I had already opened my own business.

I have a, I had a cafe slash bookstore with a performance space. I was a performance poet, hobbyist. And so I had this space in Chicago on the south side where we really didn't have coffee houses. We, this is a food desert and an area where there weren't a lot of community resources. And so there was a lot of community support in creating this space.

But I was exhausted because when you open a coffee shop, you have to wake up at four in the morning to get the coffee ready by five. And maybe five 30, you gotta be ready with coffee or it's not profitable. And I was sleep deprived. I was in a marriage that was reflective of. Lack of sleep, lack of connection, lack of intimacy.

And I was just really burning both ends of the candle. And I decided to coming up on my one year anniversary of opening the cafe to have a get together with some of my girlfriends, and I hired, I brought in a massage therapist. I brought in a like pedicure, a facial, all these people to come in, just pamper us and everybody could just, book their sessions as they wanted when they got there.

My only rule was that I was going first for the massage and I got on that table and that woman changed my entire life. The style of touch that she offered was a blend between some like Omi Loy, but really nurturing and almost like a hug. And that the sel n technique was just really, it felt like I was being made love to, in a way that I had never been made love to before in a way that didn't involve any erotic parts of me, so to speak. Like it awakened erotic energy, but it wasn't essential massage. I, she was barefoot, hippied out, and I was under a sheet.

It was, there was no eroticism per se. But this, the massage really made me realize that I wanted to make people feel the way that I felt in that moment. And I just remember crying after this session and not being really confused about everything, what path I was on, what journey I had taken, what marriage I was in.

Everything was all of a sudden just what are you doing? Yeah. You could be doing this, you could be actually healing people with your hands. Wow. And, and in the next, seven to 10 days I asked for a divorce. I, no, I announced that I would be closing my cafe and I enrolled in massage school.

Wow. Like a true Aquarius. Yes. I know. As a fellow Aquar. I know. Yes. This is so amazing because what you are describing is, as you said, it wasn't a, an erotic massage per se, but the quality of presence and touch woke up this erotic energy in you, it this aliveness in you.

Yeah. It shifted so much of just like how I understood my body and how really, like how people had been touching my body like how I had been allowing people to touch me, not knowing. What I wanted, how I wanted to be touched. Yes. And she showed me really how I wanted to be touched.

And and she also just showed me that that this was possible from the hands. Like that this was possible somehow, some way to learn and be skilled enough to place your hands on someone and awaken everything in them. Yes. Yes. That's the other great thing is it does people really over overfocus on the genitalia and associate sexuality with the genitalia.

The skin is like the biggest sex organ. Yes. And just what you shared Amina about, like not knowing what quality of touch that your body wanted until it received it. Can just wake up this dormant. This dormant primal aliveness. Yeah. Yeah. And it did just that, it woke me up in a way that I, that nothing I was doing, I could continue.

Like I've never been so sure about anything in my life except that I was on the wrong path in every way at that moment. And and then that changed. That's amazing. Yeah. I went to massage school and I had worked previously as a sex surrogate. Not for a very long time. I'd worked under Dr.

Dean Dean Dowell in Chicago. And I worked for a little under a year, so I had already been awakened and exposed to the reality that. Sex work was something beyond survival sex work, which is all I had witnessed up until that point was sex work as street walker. Sex work, as as the pimped woman on the street.

I had not seen or had any exposure to sex work before I started working as a sex surrogate. And when I went to massage school, I still wasn't on the mindset that I wanna go back into any sort of sex work. But when I got there and I started touching people it was. I, the way that I touched, the way that I naturally went to touch people was sensuous.

It was something where I really wanted to make contact with all of their skin. I wanted to feel what I felt on the table, and I wanted them to feel that. And I remember my teachers, some of my teachers just, really saying, wow, you really, you have the touch part down. We gotta get you on the muscles and the, naming you pass the test, but the touch part you have down.

And shortly after completing school I started adding sensual touch, erotic touch to my sessions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what led me to even find the word tantra, because up until that moment I had never heard the word tantra. And it wasn't until I completed massage school and, offer started offering essential massage and someone asked for a tantra massage.

I look up tantra massage, they're making more money. I was like what is this tanha stuff? Yeah. And that led me down v various rabbit holes led me to Buddhism. It led me to to understanding neo tantra, to it led me down so many pathways after that. Yeah. This is so awesome. I want to explore some of those rabbit holes, but specifically amina, I feel like the sanctuary you've created with the institute, the Atlanta Institute of Tantra, specifically as a sanctuary to cultivate and have a safe space for black women to explore their pleasure, their embodiment, their desires is such a unique haven. I'd love to know what were some of those, like most influential rabbit holes, since massage school that made you specifically envision the Atlanta Institute of Tantra for black women to really be, feel safe in really embodying all of who they are.

Yeah, so there were a few one of the rapid holes that was probably the biggest and has been the most influential was some, just learning about what somatics was like. Just the the language the history. I was. Taking an online course with Reggie Ray and who, and I just had never heard anybody speak of the body in that way.

Wow. I had never thought of my body in that way, and at this point I'm pretty well first in the body I thought. Totally. So that was, yeah, that was one rabbit hole that just I was like, oh my goodness. This is, I was longing also for spirituality. I had. Left my spiritual tradition and was visiting other spiritual traditions and nothing felt right until I found one that was really rooted in the body.

And so that rabbit hole really shifted things. It also changed my understanding 'cause I was looking for tanha. That's how I ran up on Reggie Ray. He wrote a book called Tantra and I was like, oh, he's a tantric llama. Let me study under him and wrong, wrong tantra in my mind once I got there.

But also very much the right tantra because it really shifted my understanding about how the body. Communicates with us, and it allowed me to apply all of that to my erotic work and the spaces that I'm in. So that was one rabbit hole. Yeah. What I, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. No I wanted, because I'm not familiar with Reggie's work and maybe some of audience members aren't either.

By this time, I understand that you had completed your massage school training, so you understand the anatomy you natural, it sounds like your touch just came very innate, natural. What was it about what you discovered studying with Reggie and his approach to Tantra that built new layers of understanding of, embodiment?

Yeah, it's the biggest thing was like, it was, it, there was no focus on sex at all. So I like, there was one part of me that was like, I'm in the wrong classroom. Where am I at? What's happening here? And but then, because that wasn't the focus, it was just the focus on the entire body. And really one of the lessons was about just diving deep in, there's a practice called somatic descent, and you can Google this.

Reggie Ray is, I think it's also on audible with Sounds True. Or you can go to Sounds True. And find his work there. The somatic descent is a meditation that takes place where you just, you literally go into the body, you go behind all of the story, and you just work to drop into the body.

And in that space, you get to ask your body questions that you're curious about. And for me, it was in that practice that I really found consent for myself. Like up until that moment, I don't think I, I knew consent is like no means no, and yes means yes. I don't think until I started actually being in my body, practicing trying to exist inside of me being worried about just me for a bit.

It wasn't until then that I really started navigating a relationship with consent, as I now know it, like this thing that, that. Bubbles up inside of me and allows me to allow, that allows me to say yes. Yeah. That's truly my own. Yeah. Yeah. And so that embodiment work really his work is so deeply rooted in embodiment.

Like it is just, it is tantra, it is meditation, it is embodiment. It is from the tips of your toes there was one practice where we just had to find like the space in between our big toe and our little toe, our second toe, and just feel into that space. Like such very specific things that allowed me to realize like just how much.

I, had been dissociating from my body had been disconnected from my body. And this is coming from somebody who thinks I know my body and I'm in touch with my body. And then I moved through this practice and I'm like, oh, there's so much more to learn. I'm I'm just a baby. I don't know what I'm doing here.

So that's, and I'm still in that rabbit hole. That rabbit hole has blown my mind. And I hang out there quite often. Because it's led me, it's led me to a lot of different somatic practices, a lot of different studying and learning and then also looking at that. 'cause one of the things about a lot of the somatic schools of thought is that they.

It's very interesting. They talk about everything except for the genitals. They're like somatic, somatics, not sex. Yeah. Totally. And yeah, so it has left me with this space to play and explore how to articulate all of this beautiful somatic theory from Strozzi, from Peter Levine and from, Stacy Haynes and folks like that. And then bring it into this erotic space which is so important, especially for those of us who are navigating racialized and gendered trauma. Societal trauma. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. When you really look at tantra and its purity, it's the art of presence.

And being present. And it sounds like Reggie's work just really creates this. Sanctuary of exploring presence with your own body and your intimate connection with your own body. Yeah. And it's infinite, like that space between the big toe and the second toe. If you can, I mean it sounds like you've bringing that kind quality of awareness to the genitalia and to the pelvis.

Whoa. That's just Yeah. Infinite terrains of sensation to explore. Exactly. Exactly. And it's interesting 'cause I think about the work I do with the vaginal canal and like how many of us just think, oh, it's just a thing that's there. Not realize there's these muscles in the front and there's these muscles.

In the back and on the right and the left are different muscles. And you can actually explore each part, front, side, back, whatever you can get to know the, like all of the layers in the same way that you can get to know that space between your toe. And and so yeah, it just, it invites it invites a level of playfulness too, and curiosity to the body.

That I just love, I love to be with Yes. In my work. I just love to be with the playfulness that we have the capacity for as humans. Yeah. That's so beautiful. It's like being children. I get, it's like, it, when I do my intakes with clients, I always ask about their first introduction to their sexuality and, oftentimes it's, playing with the teddy bear or the shower head or, and it's re reintroducing us to that playfulness as children, yeah. That gets like stomped or shamed or whatever. Yep. But something that's so important, Amina, that you touched on is, it sounds like really authentic consent for you comes from being that intimate with your body sensations and being able to attune to what it is that your body's experiencing.

Yeah, that's exactly it for me because I think for a lot of my, a good chunk of my life consent was really rooted in what I thought I was supposed to do. What I thought was the best option, according to whoever is measuring best. It wasn't me, it wasn't my body. And so I would say yes to things that made sense logically, but not somatically.

I would say no to things that didn't make sense logically, but might have actually been exactly what my body was longing for. But I couldn't find that. I didn't know where to find that. And yeah, so go, going down the rabbit hole has allowed me to discover that and also get curious about other folks and say okay what does it look like inside of you?

If all the if belonging is no longer an issue if, you get to belong wherever you are. What does consent then look like? That is such a huge point because once. One, once a, a nervous system feels that safety and security, I believe it's only then that they can really attune to what's authentic in the body.

It absolutely. Absolutely. Beautiful. Amina so Reggie Ray was a big rabbit hole. Yeah. Reggie Ray was a big one. Yeah. And then along your journey, what were the other kind of inspiring or influential experiences that made you really create this vision for a sanctuary for black women and their pleasure?

Yeah. One, so there's a saying in the black community that is very common and that is that you are doing white people shit. And so I found myself historically in my family on the other end of that statement oh, I was the first one to be vegetarian. I was the first one to be vegan.

I was the first one to, so these things were just like, oh, this is not from our culture. You're doing that stuff that you're picking up over there from being around white folks, Uhhuh. And so that is one thing that is that I want you to hold that while I move into what's next. So i, I start going to workshops and, one day events that are talking about tantra because I'm trying to learn, I wanna figure out what this is all about. And sacred sexuality, I'm trying to expose myself and every single one that I go to, I am at that time the youngest and the absolute darkest person in the room.

It seemed like it was something that was not accessible to me or anybody that I knew. I could hear my family, I could hear my friends saying, I'm not going to that white people stuff. That's for you. And I just kept seeing that over and over again everywhere I went, and it didn't matter. I lived in Oakland for a little bit, and even in the Bay where you have all this diversity, it was still the same in Hawaii, it was the same. I lived in Hawaii for 15 years, and with all of the native Hawaiians, all of the brown folks, all of the Asian people that are living there. I would go and it would be all white people. Maybe an Asian here and there, but like that was just the spaces.

And one of the things that I know, and I know this because I've worked in marketing. In my muggle world enough to that if I'm, whoever I'm talking to is who's gonna show up? And it is segregation is intentional. It is not happenstance. So you have to actively, Angela Davis says, you, you have to be anti-racist or else you're racist.

You have to actively be doing the work to bring in folks that are that have been historically disenfranchised from spaces. And that wasn't happening. I was just finding them 'cause I was nosy and I was trying to figure this thing out. But I also realized that there was a lot that was missing a lot of things that, like cultural competency, that it wasn't even safe for me to bring.

I couldn't invite my friends and be like, y'all should come to this thing with me. Because it just, there were little things, little microaggressions. Little, little things where you're like, there's a water reality of black women in our hair and if it's straightened, we're not getting in the water.

So having a water ritual with no. Protection for hair or no warning in advance is, or we're all up against the wall now. We're not participating in that. We can't go back to anything after that. We gotta go home and we gotta flat iron our hair. We gotta do all these things. And so it was just like little things like that where I'm like, this space hasn't thought about us being in.

And that doesn't feel good to me. And and I want us to have spaces where we feel like we've been considered Absolutely. In the process. Yeah. And so eventually I started hosting my own little workshops. And really speaking to black and brown women. And saying, there's a space for us here and I'm not a guru.

But I've learned a couple things and I'm having some fun and let's get together and play. And and that was good. That was fun. And I would have, first, first one, there was like three people. It was great. It was like 30 people. And then they started then people started talking and they're like, oh, amina's workshops, go to these.

And I was having a blast doing that. That was really, so that was, but that was what led me into trying to create space, which is being in space, visiting spaces and realizing oh, this is actually not made for me. I could be here, I could struggle to be here, I could struggle to be comfortable, but I'm not gonna open up.

I'm not gonna be as wet as possible. I'm not gonna be as allowing, and so that, that shifted things and I started hosting events, and then I moved to Atlanta and started hosting events there and and then it just blew up. It blew up. It blew up. Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to what we were saying, that unless the nervous system really feels safe.

And met and attuned to. There's gonna be a, an a, a hypervigilance in the subconscious, and then especially if a tantric kind of event or retreat is a reflection of kind of the microaggressions of the largest society, the patriarchy and the racist kind of structure, then you cannot expect oxytocin to flow and the oxygenation of the blood and like all of the kind of physiological things that are necessary for sacred sexuality to emerge.

So if it's a carbon reflection of mainstream society, it's not gonna feel safe. Exactly. Exactly. And I knew that it felt that deeply into my bones. That there needed to be space. I didn't realize how large the demand for that space was gonna be. Yeah. Once I gotta, once I left Hawaii and moved into a city where it's 70% black folks then that changed everything. Let's talk about that. So when you say it exploded, like the demand, you went from like your first gathering of three people to 30 people and then like thinking back now to when you landed in Atlanta and started holding sacred space for the black community.

Like, when did you realize, oh man, this isn't just a river, it's like a tidal wave of pent up demand. Yeah. It was really quickly actually, because I was not planning on staying in Atlanta. Oh, wow. I was, it's, time we're back here again, but this was, I was on the plane to Seattle Uhhuh the day that Trump was elected.

Huh And when the plane touched down, I turned my phone on and I saw the news and I just said, oh, shit out loud. Yeah, he won and the plane erupted. There were tears. People were, it was a Honolulu to Seattle flight, so I'm very left-leaning flight. And I made that decision that day that I was leaving the country.

I was like, that's it. I'm, I gotta get outta here. I can't keep doing this. And so I called my mom up when I landed and said, mom, I'm gonna move. This was like November 4th or fifth, whatever day. I went, by the time I got back, I gave my notice to my job and I finished out the most of the rest of the year with them before I left.

For Atlanta to help my mother pack up because she said she was leaving the country too. Oh, wow. And so I was only gonna be in Atlanta for three months to help my mom pack up the house, figure out things, whether she was gonna sell it or rent it out. We thought we'd do look at all these options and see, and I was just gonna be there to support.

I land and three days later she's I don't wanna move now. I have chatted out these three months in Atlanta and I thought okay, I guess I'll, if I'm gonna be here, then I'll get a little office in town and I see and start seeing people. And I was fully booked every day for yeah, for the whole three months I was fully booked.

Amazing. It was no break. And then I'm doing the events and people are just pouring into the events. This is the first three months where I said, okay, Costa Rica can wait Uhhuh. And I just decided to. To stay. And I, at that point I met my now husband Yes. Also, like a month after I landed in Atlanta.

And and so he's watching me have these classes and these workshops, and he's coming to them, he's being my body. And we're, deepening into a playful relationship. But I was very much I am, I'm, I've been solo, poly relationship anarchist. I just come on in for the ride and have some fun and and about six months in, he said to me one night, he said, I just, I want you to teach me how to be as free as you are. And he might as well ask me to marry him. 'cause I don't know. That was probably the moment where I was like, nobody's ever said that to me, Uhhuh. And I felt really seen and just loved in that moment, and I thought.

Kind of arrogantly of course I could teach you this. This is Uhhuh. And then I set for the next six months really working on a curriculum. Wow. Trying to figure out like, how do I teach what I've learned over 20 years? How do I do that? I don't know how to do that. What's important, what's the most important in trying to sort all that out?

And, reaching out to mentors and friends who develop curriculum and asking for their help and support. And in yeah, in that fall of 2017, I launched the institute with the first class of, which was just was called Conscious Erotic Touch, and now it's called Eero Somatic Touch.

We rebranded earlier this year. And and my first group of students were six people and one of them was my now husband. We were already lovers before the studenthood. I don't sleep with my students, but course this was already sleeping with, and yeah.

Yeah. And so it was just this very beautiful practice of playing, and I didn't know if it was landing and some of it was, and so I reconfigured and now now, this is 2017 to now, so we're like five, six years later. Seven, yeah. Yeah. Seven, eight years. Yeah. Seven, eight years later.

I know, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And so now things are a little more, a lot more structured and we're accredited and we have, we're now working on global accreditation and things like that. So Cool. Yeah. But it started off with just a very loving request and I had never, I hadn't been thinking about, I hadn't, I wasn't seeing myself as a teacher.

I was like hosting these events where I was. Technically teaching. Of course. But I didn't feel like I was teacher. Yeah. I felt like I was, leading a yoga practice, but it was just Yeah. Fun, sexy play. And and yeah that, that gentle request. Just really, yeah.

Started a revolution, it's it's so great. It was a very simple loving, proposal of sorts, but it look at what came out of that. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I love Amina is it feels like it was a very organic process, because here for 20 years you've been holding space.

It's not like it came from like an intellectual, like from books, it came from your life. Intuitive, embodied, somatic experience, of what you knew worked over these, two decades. And then with some tweaks and trials and errors over the years, you just, the structure finds itself.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, that's what I realized also was really challenging about teaching, is that I had been in, extreme Aquarius mode where things were flowing and fitting and molding and developing. And I would look around and say, that needs to be moved or that needs to be changed. And what was created was just powerful, beautiful exploration.

And I could witness the way that it was impacting folks every day. And that was like fueling my fire. Yeah. Then to try and encapsulate that into a program that now requires some structure has been probably one of my greatest life challenges. I'm sure. I'm sure as an aqua. I totally understand.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I'm used to like this organic flow of things. And honestly I think, in over the years I've had the pleasure, especially recent years in the last really since, since the pandemic, I've had the pleasure to sit with teachers that move at a pace, even in structured in a real structured learning style.

Like these are the things that we're learning, but moving at a pace that's felt really settling from my nervous system and from my soul. And that has really also helped shape. Me holding space for others in this work so much. Like how do I teach people to slow down in their love making, to slow down in their approach of the body if I'm teaching class and we're going from module to module so fast.

Totally. Yeah. And so like really learning to being a student because I'm a forever student and witnessing teachers move at that pace in this work has also really shaped how I hold space. And I think it's also really offered a bit of, it's like some medicine that was necessary in this work.

'cause so many of my students and clients are coming to me on that little bit of free time that they get from their life. Of course. And if I can't slow down in this space and it feels just like what they're used to. And that doesn't feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What you're sharing is really profound because we have to walk or talk and we have to demonstrate really by example, the benefits of slowing down and allowing the nervous system to really feel settled and downregulate and feel itself and, allow emotion to come forward when it wants to and sensations to come forward when there's space for it. Yeah. That's really beautiful.

And to notice when there's no space, and I think for me, that's been a big part of my work for myself is just like noticing that there's no space for emotion. That I'm too busy, that I'm moving too fast. That I'm placing unreasonable demands on my own self. Yeah. And have left no space for emotional experience.

Yeah. And, running an institute and the retreats and, having your clients, you've, you have to really kind of assert boundaries. And I love I remember like one of the first emails I sent you, I got a response right away saying, I love you so much, you're wonderful.

And on these days, I will not be answering emails, yeah. It's great. You're, you have to do that to allow for that spaciousness. Yeah, you do. You really do. Because it'll blow right past you. And I'm, I'm, I've, it's, there's also like this chunk of me moving from relationship anarchist solo poly to.

Really what feels I wanna say it's still anarchy, but it's still, we're nesting partners and so there's also this like consideration of the space that you're sharing with someone. And then like also my own space and time and all of these things that are, that will just get tossed to the wayside.

And that's like the soil from which you are teaching the soil that's nourishing your embodiment that's holding space and, bringing your intuition and creativity forward. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Amina I wanna take the opportunity to ask you, because I think a lot of our listeners are either sexological body workers or hold retreats and are not aware of how.

They're they don't know what they don't know when it comes to holding space for people of color. I wanna ask you you've been in, you've been a participant in spaces where you were one or the only, black or brown person. And again, the microaggressions that are reflected in our major society can show up in these retreats.

Can you help our listeners understand what do you feel like makes your spaces that are so inviting and allows the nervous system to feel at ease for black women? What are the qualities would you say that are different? Or what are the considerations that are different? Just, immediately I think seeing other people who share your experience in the space relaxes the nervous system.

And certainly having a leader. Like being able to empathize and understand your experience as a black woman growing up in this patriarchal society. Patriarchal, racist society is very reassuring. But are there other elements that would be informative for listeners to like research or examine on their own to make spaces more conducive and inviting?

Yeah, absolutely. I think I will put at the front of that is that I've had the joy, the pleasure, and the honor of being a black woman my whole life. And so I've been surrounded by black women my whole life and. What other people will have to learn is innate for me. And I say that to say, if you're looking for like increasing diversity, it will start from the top and bringing in somebody to partner with that is a black person or a person of color that is racialized as a person of color.

And I wanna say that because a lot of our bipoc spaces, and I enjoy being in them, but a lot of times I'll go in them and I'll still be the only black person. And I'll still be the only person that's experiencing what it's like to be faced as a brown person. Sure. The culture at home might, we might have some similarities and some overlaps there, but what I'm really thinking about is how I'm experiencing the world and how that's impacting.

My ability to experience myself at rest and at pleasure. And so that's one of the things is like making sure you have have someone that's there in partnership or in consultation that that has lived that experience of being a black person in the US or in the west or in Canada, wherever it is, because there's such a unique value that brings.

And it's something that we have inate. So what, when my, I have white folks that come to my events. I have folks from all walks of life that come to my events and they feel at ease automatically because. The reality of my life has been that I have always been in white spaces. Absolutely. And so I know what that's like.

But if you've never been in black spaces, right? If you've never looked around and thought, wow, I'm the only white girl here, or, wow, I'm the only Asian here, right? If you've never had that experience and looked around the room of black people. And there's a lot of things that you're gonna miss.

And in, in making space safe, there's a lot of things that won't feel like much of an aggression to you won't feel like violence to you that will feel so violent to us because of the, his story, the historical experiencing of it. And so having that is, I think the biggest thing, the easiest thing.

I also come from my grandmother was a sharecropper. She was raised by a freed slave. I have heard these stories and I know what that looks like. I know what it looks like to be a woman over the course of generations. I've said at the feet of my grandmother and my aunties and listen to stories growing up.

And so that informs how I move. With other black people because I know what, where our lineage of shame is coming from. Which is different than there are some things that we, that are very much taboo, that are not taboo in other cultures. Right next door. Yeah. Around the corner.

And so I'm just that consciousness of the things that I, that we will stigmatize that others might not stigmatize the things that feel normal for us, but not normal for someone else. And navigating that, that is easier because of my lived experience. I and it's easier, I think because I'm, I've lived, I live in Latin America now.

I've lived in Hawaii for 15 years. I've been around. Very diverse communities also throughout my life, so that I've also been able to absorb and learn. I've, spent a lot of time praying five times a day and wearing the veil and the mosque. And so I also understand like my family, my mother's side of the family is coming from a very deep southern Baptist ritualistic belief system.

And that influences and impacts what a black woman needs to feel safe in a space. Yeah. And also same thing for folks. A lot of black Americans are Muslim, and so they, they're bringing that into the space, having that awareness and being able to speak to that. When I speak about liberation and I speak about all these things that seem, like they are countering certain religious and spiritual practices that might lose us. That might lose black women or black people in general may just be like, this is, this is not something I wanna participate in. I know why, I know how to have that conversation as well in a way that, that allows them to still maintain whatever parts of them they wanna keep.

It's very clear in what you're outlining. I wonder also, Amina, like the way black women have been sexualized by our society. There's this, when you speak about lineage, there's also, women were, black people were slaves, but women in particular were used sexually when they were slaves.

All the way, Thomas Jefferson, et cetera, et cetera. And, i'm also aware of the history of gy, how gynecology started in America is a really dark history. Yeah. Where black enslaved women were essentially used as Guinea pigs without anesthesia, without, they were just like practiced on by white men.

Yeah. So sexualization of a black body, and then of course with black men as well, it's got its own history, and I'm guessing if I was a black, if I was the only black person in a white tantric retreat where we were exploring bodies I would I don't know, I wondered how that would affect my experience and my participation.

Yeah. It probably would. I could tell you from my experience, it just limits it. Like you just don't want to. Participate. Yes. And for a lot of reasons, many of the ones that you named, like just the historical reality of how our bodies have been used in in the us in the west not just the US, but in the West.

But also in that, like that light of everything that I grew up looking at when I looked at models of vulvas or breast, it did not look like me. I remember just when I was younger, when I was like 13, trying to find my clitoris and looking at the picture. And then looking at mine, it was like I could not find it.

It was unidentifiable compared to the picture that I would had access to at the time. And so going to a space where I'm looking at a lot of vulvas that I used to call them porn pussies. 'cause that's what they look like. They look like the perfect little ones that you would see on porn, which did not look like mine.

My lips were my, my lips are as full up here as they are down there. And how that can be intimidating to even disrobe. How that could be intimidating. What's acceptable. And this is, we could, there's a lot that could be impact in spaces where where Tantra is being explored.

But also body types, right? Like in the black community, a little extra meat on the bones is desirable. A bigger But is desirable. Yes. And when I would go to a lot of spaces, I was also the largest person in the room. And I'm not a big woman. But I would go into spaces and it would be full of very small framed white yogis.

And there's something about that makes you say, oh, I don't wanna get naked in here. This Sure. I don't wanna be bare, I don't wanna bear my soul in here. I don't wanna bear myself in here. I don't want that. There's the emotional part of Yeah. So vulnerable. No. Yeah. I'm gonna, what if I have to cry?

And then who, oh, like all of this weight is on you. And that all gets to be lifted up a bit in a space where you are looking around and you know that people have a similar experience, a similar body. That they've seen bodies that look like yours, whether it was their mothers or themselves, that we've seen our bodies and we are familiar with that.

And we see them not in discussed or not in the way that needs to be changed. And that is really important in the sexual experience. Yeah. Yeah. Really celebrated for the beauty. Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to ask you Amina I saw a Substack article that I hadn't read it 'cause I wasn't a member, but I saw a Substack article that you wrote about, like the need for more black male sexual surrogates.

And I wanted to ask you whether this also ties into how black women are underserved, in sacred sexuality and like what prompted you to write that article and what and what it was about. Yeah. The prompt was how many women I have currently as clients who are at a point where they are ready to practice.

And outside of with me or with my husband, there's no one like that. There's not enough male practitioners. And so I'm like, there's a waiting list. Like I'm working, I'm trying to find some. Yeah. That was what prompted me in the conversation. And I went to talk about it in social media and what was coming at me with a lot of questions from men that were like, we could do this work.

What do you need? And it's a lot of curiosity. I've never heard of this. What is this thing? And so that was that, that led me to just let me write something that's out there in the ether so people can understand, some of the I this languish needs to be in the ether with black men attached to it.

First and foremost. And then also there needs, we need more safe. 'cause it wasn't just about black male surrogates. It's we need more safe black male surrogates. And one of the reasons why I really emphasize that is in a culture where black men have been waiting, I, I think of that song from lion King, where I just can't wait to be king.

And a lot of this stuff, and this is true for all oppressed people, I think a lot of times when we're fighting for liberation, what we're really fighting for is to be adjacent to power. And so what I keep witnessing in. In erotic spaces are black men who are, who have moved into the space because there is an opening with no training no understanding of consent beyond what they got in high school, which we know what that looks like.

It's not much at all. Or college, you, it is nothing totally informed. Consent has not been available to you, so how can you offer it to me? You know what I mean? And so all of these things are also happening where I'm witnessing violence in the erotic space because there is no training. But we we need it too.

But there's not enough training. Yes. And so I'm, I wanted to put a call out so that people, so that black men could be aware. And that other instructors that are teaching. Black men, or they're teaching men how to be surrogates or how to be sacred. Intimates can also realize oh yeah, I'm still miss, I'm still not serving black women, because there's still this huge gap in, in, in the work that we, that we're missing and we're not talking to black men, and I know no one's talking because I put up one post up on social media and it, the number of people that reached out to me privately from that post was I was almost overwhelmed by it. Wow. I was like, oh, wow. Wow. This is just, these conversations are just not happening.

Yeah. Yeah. And just even, to be honest with you, I didn't even consider. That would that could be such a major issue. But it makes so much sense here. You are a haven for women, for black women to really return and reclaim their sexuality and agency and resource in their life force, and they wanna practice, and if there aren't black male surrogates, like who, what's, where can they go? It's not something that I think the average person considers even in the, sexuality space. Yeah, no, it's, yeah. It's something that I think just gets, laid, left off to the side and in these spaces.

That, even in my space, they're so queer. It's like we, we have this inherent queerness in our spaces. That's beautiful for me. But but for my cis heterosexual that are like clearly identifying as heterosexual and would like to be in these practices with a heterosexual male, or a male that wants to have sex with wo women, that is where we're really falling apart at the seams at.

And it's it's really, yeah, it's really heavy on me right now. It's like, how do I call more black men in? And also how do I hold that space? Because then once I've called you in, I really feel I get really maternal about the work in a way where I'm like, okay, mom's gonna make sure that this space is safe for everybody.

And I wanna make sure that those that are stepping in, especially the black women are putting a great amount of trust on me to say. You, I trust you to make the recommendation. I trust you to make the referral. I trust you to train this person. And so I have, I stay in community with my students because in that trust is also I wanna make sure that we are all, we have ways to navigate thing, issues that come up.

We have ways to ensure that we're holding spaces safely as we can. Yeah. We have ways to ensure that we're honoring the needs and the sacredness of this work. Yes. Making sure that's held. Yeah. Yeah. I love for our audience members you had just completed these, this four free day boundaries and consents forum or summit.

It's I love it seemed to me like the summit was really explor exploring the nuances of consent. There was one headline I saw about the impact of trauma in accessing choice and voice. These are all subtle things that impact one's sense of agency and consent in an intimate situation that often get overlooked.

Yeah. Yeah. I think they too often get overlooked and then we start working on something that doesn't need repair in, instead of actually just working on feeling into the body learning regulation getting familiar with our own nervous system tending to our own needs that, that those things will be so much more simpler than some of the work that we that the healing community tends to do around sex, from doctors to therapists, to everyone has got their own thing that they, pelvic floor therapist, we can do this.

And, and at the end of the day, it's like, if I'm not, if I'm not navigating or understanding the impact that even some of the smallest traumas that I've experienced are showing up in my, in the way I get to say yes and no, then all the other work is is very auxiliary. It's not, yeah it's it's like you have to have a foundation to the house before you add higher stories to it. Yeah. If a body doesn't even feel safe, attuning to what is authentic consent, then what is, what do the, all these other things matter? They don't, it really comes down to, the safety and security and authentics consent of the body.

I feel like we are, we're coming full circle back to Reggie's somatic descent and really like developing this attuned, intimate communication with one's own body in order to really discover what the authentic consent of the body is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As it starts so it ends, right?

Yeah. As it, that's really at the root of all that is right for me. It's have I set with myself too? See how much of myself is available for this, for whatever this is and if there's any of me that's available. And that is something that comes, that, that is from that practice of somatic descent.

Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Beautiful. And Amina, where can people find out more about you and your certification for Somatic sexologists? Yeah, so I'm a TL Tantra pretty much everywhere. A TL like Atlanta's airport code and T-A-N-T-R-A. Wow. Amina. It's just I'm marveling at what you've created, this safe sanctuary for black women and black men to really come into that.

Sense of agency and resource and life force that's, that we're born with. That's our inherent right. And everything that you really meditate on, the slowing down, the consent, the somatic descent to really be attuned to what the body's authentic desire is like, it's just so beautiful and so necessary.

And, I resonate with it 'cause it's so aligned with my approach and I just, I think it's fabulous what you've created. It's so great that you yeah. That you're holding space for so many people. Thank you. Yeah. I do feel very aligned with your work, so I'm really looking forward to, to not just this upcoming partnership, but to continued partnerships to see your work also just mushroom into our communities as well, because Yeah.

There's so much alignment. And I feel that deeply.

How is today's interview landing in your body right now? Are there aspects of your sexuality and their expression that feel unsafe to be seen as if they do not belong? And if so, how can you provide that sense of belonging and acceptance to those aspects of yourself? How would it be to seek out containers that reflect your lived in embodied experiences in which your sexuality in all of its expressions would be recognized and celebrated?

 Thank you for listening to Your Body. Remembers Pleasure If this conversation supported you, the simple way to help this work reach more people is to leave a five star rating or a brief review. You'll also find more resources and teachings@rahichun.com. Until next time, take good care.