Orgasm Is a Doorway, Not a Destination 

About Our Guest:

Dawn Cartwright has been a quietly influential voice in neo-tantra for more than three decades. She began at Margot Anand’s retreat at White Lotus in the mountains above Santa Barbara, went on to train in Margot’s year-long program, and has since studied with tantric teachers from India to Indonesia, New Zealand to Sweden, . She holds a degree in psychology from UC Davis and trained extensively in bioenergetics, meditation, yoga, and expressive movement. Dawn is the founder of the Chandra Bindu Tantra Institute in Los Angeles, creator of the Fragrance of the Lotus Teacher Certification Training, and host of the Be Fully Alive podcast, where more than 325 episodes explore neo-tantra, sexuality, relationships, and neuroscience. Her work rests on a simple, radical premise: that our natural human, animal sexual expression is already whole, and the practice is removing what stands in its way.

Links:

• DawnCartwright.com

Welcome to Your Body Remembers Pleasure. I’m your host, Rahi Chun. This podcast is devoted to sexual embodiment, intimacy, and the body’s innate capacity to heal, feel, and remember pleasure. If something here resonates with you, you’re welcome to explore more writings and resources at rahichun.com. And now, let’s begin.

What if orgasm isn’t the place you arrive, but the doorway? That’s the question at the heart of today’s conversation with Dawn Cartwright, founder of the Chandra Bindu Tantra Institute and one of the teachers who first opened me up to neo-tantra some 25 years ago. Dawn shares why so much of what we call orgasm is built on holding back.

We talk about the [00:01:00] tension we carry in the jaw and belly during intimacy, and she offers two simple practices: tracking sensation and breathing beneath the belt that anyone can begin today. Here’s my conversation with Dawn

My guest today has been one of the most quietly influential voices in the world of neo-tantra for over three decades. Dawn Cartwright began her journey at a tantric retreat in the mountains above Santa Barbara and never looked back. She’s traveled the world studying with some of the most celebrated tantric masters of our time, from India to Indonesia, New Zealand to Sweden.

She holds a degree in psychology from UC Davis, trained extensively in bioenergetics, meditation, yoga, and ex-expressionistic movement, and has received transmissions from teachers including Margo Anand, Daniel Odier, and Sri Amritananda Mayi [00:02:00] Saraswati. She’s the founder of the Chandra Bindu Tantra Institute in Los Angeles, originally from Long Beach, which is when I met her.

Creator of the year-long Fragrance of the Lotus teacher certification training, and host of the Be Fully Alive podcast, now with over 325 episodes exploring neo-tantra, sexuality, relationships, and neuroscience. I must share that personally and professionally, Dawn has been a really important catalyst for my understanding of the subtle terrains of spirituality and sexuality and consciousness, and how they all interweave in practices exploring Just around pleasure, intimacy, connection.

I mean, when I first came across Dawn, I was like a camel to water. She was offering these, like, weekly Friday night drop-ins and I was experiencing deep intimate connection through breath and [00:03:00] presence in these exercises she was facilitating that didn’t involve any physical contact with a complete stranger and they were so, like, more intimate than some of the genital intercourse experiences I had had at the time.

So my mind was so blown. Mm-hmm. And we’ll get into some of those practices that are available to anyone with a body and yet we’re so distracted in our culture. So Dawn, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome. Thank you so much for that introduction. Thank you for having me. And I was really impressed with your excellent pronunciation-

especially of all the Sanskrit words. And for that, reminded me of that journey. Yeah, I remember Long Beach and I ha- actually had even a little studio in Long Beach for a brief time. Yes. And then I was teaching in Santa Monica and I remember those- Yeah … early days. Those were– That was very special. It really was.

I mean, I felt like you, you were the best-kept secret in LA. I still kind [00:04:00] of feel like you are because just to drop in weekly back then or do kind of a immersive four-week, you know, at your studio, it was so intimate, so personal, and so kind of tailored. I feel like you, you know, you really have a skill in knowing, I mean, three decades now, of how to gently guide people to leaning in to their edge of what’s gonna ex- be- Mm

expansive on the other end. Yeah. I’m– I just… You know, you, you have a really special place in my heart and I love you dearly. Aw. Dawn, I wanna ask you about that Santa Barbara retreat, because it seemed like that tantric retreat shifted everything for you. What did you discover that you’d been searching for and maybe didn’t even know you were searching for?

Or how did that be a catalyst for your journey? That is such a great question, because I signed up for the retreat having absolutely no idea [00:05:00] what neo-tantra was. Um, and Margo at the time was calling it tantra. I hadn’t even heard the word, and if the word had been on the advertising, I wouldn’t have signed up, because I, I didn’t know what tantra was.

But she advertised the retreat as the art of sexual magic. And as a woman who loves sex, I was all in. Right. I was so excited. I signed up. I knew there was power in sex that wasn’t being talked about in the world. Hmm. And I had grown up just on the outer edges of the sexual revolution, so I had read books like Joy of Sex and, and Chalice and the Blade and, and just all of the sensuous woman, these powerful embodiment, sovereignty, you know, b- books about claiming pleasure as our birthright.

And, and so I had that in me, and yet I did- I also had this experience of the magic of sex. Hmm. The, these qualities that I really could barely explain, [00:06:00] where I would feel so at peace. So completely open to my partner, feeling like I was absolutely embracing and enfolding, like, just everything that I didn’t even know I longed for in sex was starting to show up for me, and I didn’t have a context for it.

Hmm. And my partner at the time happened to be of a religion that did not put sex and spirit together. I see. So he told me, “You do not bring the two. Don’t talk to me about these experiences in the bedroom, because I’m not interested and I’m not open to it.” Wow. So I felt shame. I felt embarrassed. I felt weird.

I felt left out. And when I saw Margo’s ad in the LA Weekly, because we didn’t have the internet the way we have it today. Right. I, I was shocked, thrilled. I knew that this is where I had to be. So I show up at White [00:07:00] Lotus. It’s funny, not the TV show, but- Right … the retreat center- Ah … in the Santa Barbara mountains.

I’m dressed in a business suit. I have suitcases. Oh my God. I cannot imagine that with… For, I cannot imagine that scene. I still remember, I was wearing this little shift, this little blue shift with a blue jacket, blue heels, and suitcases. And I see- Oh my God … and I see these yurts. I’m like, “Excuse me? What is a yurt?”

Mm. I set down my suitcase. I was not in that yurt the whole weekend. Yeah. I was in the group room, I was in the river, I was on the rooftop. Mm. I was in the hot tub. And what I found, to answer your question, was I found a feeling of belonging. I finally felt like my longing for sex to be something that’s really complete and connected and just very human to human, not just performance.

Yeah. And not just two people having [00:08:00] parallel experiences. Mm. This feeling of it all being so interwoven- Mm … was met there. I felt such a relief. It unwound so much, both longing and judgment I had about just the natural desires that I had around sex was, which was for sex to be really fully, sweetly connected.

That was it, and I was at home. Yeah. Wow, Dawn, as you’re sharing that, it’s almost like I’m… It’s like d- d- you’re putting me under this hypnotic trance as you describe it so beautifully because I, you know, the, the, the taste of that experience is so profound and so kind of transpersonal and so o- it’s almost like the soul is experiencing this- Mm

this union. To define Neo-Tantra with the mind is, is a challenge because it’s something beyond the [00:09:00] mind. Mm. But for our audience to get a sense of, you know, you, you had shared that Margo and Anand didn’t e- e- advertise it as Tantra or Neo-Tantra, and this exquisite visceral experience of belonging, how else would you help people understand or the invitation of Neo-Tantra?

Yes. This is what is so interesting, because if I would’ve known… Well, I did know that it was a sexual weekend, you know? Mm. I knew that I was gonna be learning about sex. I didn’t really know how that was gonna happen, but I knew that that was it. And I’m thinking, “Are we gonna learn how to touch ourselves?

Are we gonna learn how to have intercourse?” You know, like, I really didn’t know. W- And what is so beautiful about neo-tantra is that it’s about removing all the tension in my body that separates me from my natural human, animal sexual expression and experience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It was all these [00:10:00] different practices and ceremonies and circles of re- like, bioenergetic practices that would soften the tension that I might hold around my jaw during sex.

Mm. Because I’m, I’m embarrassed. I don’t want my partner to really see my pleasure, or the tension around, I might hold around my belly because I’m, I feel like I take too long to warm up. Or you know what- Mm … uh, every, those, all those places where I was feeling, like, disconnected and maybe even distracted- Mm

at times. Uh, w- all, all the practices, the breathing, the movement, the dancing, the sharing, and most importantly, seeing other people in their bodies breathing through the whole body. The breath is a wave. I think that’s a word that you used when we were communicating earlier. Mm-hmm. That it was, uh, so accessible, then this feeling where I’m no longer tightening up around the pleasure- Yes

in my body during [00:11:00] sex. Hmm. I’m allowing it, and then I’m being led by the pleasure- The pleasure … and the touch and my partner’s- Mm … pleasure, and becomes a, an actual two-way experience as opposed to, like I was saying, like, two parallel experiences, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really, really great explanation, because there’s two parts in that that I hear.

One, it’s like, it’s allowing the organic life force that we are vessels of to really be free in its animalistic nature to express itself, you know, whether it’s within your own body or in communion with another. And then the other piece is, well, we need to remove what’s in the way of that, whether it’s tension in the jaw or tightness in the belly, or even, like, you know, judgment or self-judgment or shame or, or all of that.

So it’s really two parts. It’s like removing what’s in the way and really cultivating, I guess, an attunement for how that [00:12:00] wants to live through us. 100%. I love how you said that. This attunement to wants, what wants to live through us, and it’s a reconnection to who I am naturally. You know? Yes. I grew up in rural East Tennessee, where I was very connected to nature, and then I quickly learned, though, how to- Not show my excitement, not show my attractions- Mm-hmm

not show my desires. And all of that creates this armoring- Mm-hmm … which you work with in you, your work. It creates these places where I’m holding back. Mm-hmm. Now, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t moments where I, I’m going to a lovely concert and I wanna walk in and sit down and not, you know- Sure … you know, like- Flow all over the

Yeah, exactly … flail, flail about. Yeah. But that actually starts to go deeper into- Yes … I don’t even let myself feel the ecstasy- Right … and the pleasure of the experience, right? Right. And so the neo-tantra practices are [00:13:00] genius and immediately- Mm-hmm … effective in re- in r- dissolving those, those tensions. And there’s the psychological piece.

Because it’s not just … If it was just relax my body, I can get a great massage, you know? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And, and feel relaxed. And yet, by doing these practices, they’re going right into the places that are very specifically attuned to my sexual expression, which just means my joy, my excitement- Mm-hmm … my happiness- Yeah.

Mm-hmm … my, my thrill in being in relating with a person. Mm-hmm. Whatever that relating is. Can be a- Yeah … conversation. I have had ex- cr- extreme ecstasy in conversation, like I’m having right now. I’ve had- Yes … extreme ecstasy in lovemaking that was just me with myself. Yeah. Climbing in just beyond. Yeah. And with a partner, where it’s not just me trying to get [00:14:00] somewhere.

Right. It’s actually me sensing and feeling and dovetailing and- Mm-hmm … you know, I remember I was only 32, you know, when I was doing these trainings, and of course, I felt like I was so wise and so old. I, and I was, to all the 32, you are, to all the 30, and- Yes … I remember there was a day, we were in a women’s group in Margo’s training.

Hmm. The year-long training. And I was the, one of the two youngest people in the whole training, right? Ah. And so I’m there with all these women, who are my elders, and I actually said, I was actually kind of surprised. I looked at them and I said, “Well, I know exactly How to open orgasm for my partner in the middle of sex.

I know exactly how to open that door. I can do it in my body. Yeah. And I can make it last longer, or I can make it- Mm … last shorter. I know that. I don’t… Isn’t that what everybody does? You know? Mm-hmm. But we don’t all have access to that [00:15:00] shared experience- Mm-hmm … where we can bring more oxygen to the flames, and where we can- Mm-hmm

rest in the, the more still places, where we can be more in the affectionate experience of sex. Yeah. And to me, it’s, I think you used the word earlier of, I, I read in your post, the paintbrush of- Yes … of lovemaking. Oh, I love that. And- Mm … this is the paintbrush. This is the art. And this is what- Yeah … Margo meant when she said the art of sexual magic or the art of sexual- Mm

ecstasy. Mm-hmm. That we’re so free because we- Mm-hmm … have released so much of those tensions- Mm-hmm … and ideas and stressors of our upbringing- Mm-hmm … that we can be responsive lovers. Yeah. You, you really are speaking to the art of attuning to how the life force wants to meet itself, whether that’s within one’s own body, you know, which is that meeting of joy and pleasure [00:16:00] and, um, possibility, and with another.

Dawn, y- there- there’s so much you shared there that I wanted to b- explore. But I feel like since we’re talking about orgasm, and you are speaking about the exquisite art of responsiveness and attuning for how the energy wants to express itself and meet itself in, in lovemaking, uh, whether that’s in stillness or penetrative lovemaking.

You know, you’ve said genital orgasm is a doorway, not a destination. And I would love for you to share What you mean by that as you’ve been, and what’s beyond that, that I think most of mainstream society has no clue about. They feel like, oh, the orgasm, I- I’ve arrived. And that’s just, you’ve arrived at the doorway, right?

Can you speak to that? Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, the first thing I would say is that without realizing it, we [00:17:00] are actually in a state of orgasm. We are actually orgasming far more than we think we are. We have dulled our senses. We’ve been taught to look over here. Hey, look over here. This is orgasm.

This is what you should experience. And meanwhile, we miss out on all these orgasms that are happening- Mm-hmm … naturally in every single body I have ever met, and that is thousands of bodies. Mm-hmm. So that al- is already happening. And so when we, we realize that orgasm is a doorway, we start to then open up the space- Mm

for all those tributaries and all those sparks of orgasm that are constantly available to us. Because the doorway of orgasm is introducing us to what we’re actually capable of. That is actually how we’re meant to live. And I’m not just saying that. That is how our body is designed to feel all the time.

Now, the reason why, [00:18:00] for most people in the world, sex looks like we’re having some kind of seizure. It looks like we’re- Mm-hmm … we’re, uh, it’s tension. Right. Ah, you know, and Harry Met Sally. And I always say, “Hey, I love those kinds of orgasms, too.” Mm-hmm. We don’t have to rule anything out. Right. Let’s open up our repertoire here.

Let’s, like, have more different p- portals and doorways and entries- Yes … and realize that doorway is actually a doorway to, hey, here’s actually how you’re designed to experience life in each other. Which, if I get a little esoteric here- Mm … is a blessing to this planet, because then we- Mm … we are radiating sovereignty and liberation- Mm-hmm

without creating any political sign that I’m carrying around. I’m actually- Mm-hmm … radiating this self-referenced life. Yes. And my interactions are not the kind of tension-based orgasm that we associate with [00:19:00] orgasm. Of it being like- Right … oh, finally, a relief. Mm-hmm. Oh, finally, I can be myself for 10 seconds.

Mm-hmm. Right? That’s what- Mm-hmm … most orgasm is. For 10 seconds, I get to experience what it’s like when I don’t f- have 5,000 things I’m worried about, thinking about, ashamed of, holding back, trying to hide. Mm-hmm. Right? So when we walk through that door and we realize that, oh, this is, this is the baseline.

What if orgasm was your baseline? And then- The interactions, to your point, I feel become the artistic expression. Life becomes- Mm … this artistic expression. Mm-hmm. And we start to surf the waves of- Mm … closeness and altruism. Mm. I’m an Aquarius, very much into altruism. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Where we are lifting one another and growing and- Mm-hmm

opening. And through that interaction, experiencing greater and greater levels [00:20:00] of pleasure, belongingness, in- Yes … inclusivity. Yes. And it becomes not a relief. Mm. It becomes how we radiate and how we live in life. And- I love that … sex isn’t something we wait for after we’ve got all the work done and the kids are in bed, and, “Oh, God, I haven’t had sex in four weeks,” or all those.

It, that just dissolves. Yes. As there isn’t those, those lines, those delineations between this is sex and this is not. It really- I mean- … stops being something that we put off as a treat. Yeah. What I’m hearing you share, Dawn, is it’s really the art of living an orgasmic life in a state of orgasm- Mm … and being attuned to the fact that there are portals for it everywhere all the time.

And when a portal presents itself, whether you’re alone, in nat- with nature, with a partner, is really follow [00:21:00] that. Follow that thread of orgasmic energy and you w- will just be open to an endless terrains of- Mm … possible joy, pleasure, pl- and just surprises. That’s what I’m hearing. Rather than what, how we think of orgasm, which, as you said, is like an event rather than a state of, a state of being, a state of living, like a lifestyle.

I love that. Lifestyle state of being. Absolutely, 100%. It’s not something that we have to put off and wait for and hope for. It’s not- Mm-hmm … I always say, it’s not the exclamation on the end of a s- very short sentence. Mm-hmm. And a link. Yes. It becomes this, this way of, of- Being finally sexual in the way that makes absolute sense to our body.

Yeah. Because inside all of us, the- I think there is that longing, and it shows up as, I want more sex. Yeah. I want [00:22:00] more presence in sex. Mm. I need more foreplay. I need more- Mm. It shows up in this way, and I think, and I know on the other side, when we experience orgasm as a state of being- Mm … and it’s not tension-based, like, ugh, it’s not that.

It’s, huh, here I am. All my senses- Mm … are awake. I’m feeling pleasure. And here’s another piece that another, uh, that I feel some people may not be aware of yet, is that orgasm is meant to be a full body event. Mm. And this isn’t something like, I know people sell a lot of products trying to sell you that.

You do not need a product. Right. This is how your body is made. When we release the tension, the experience of orgasm, the experience of pleasure, that heightened state where you feel like you’re almost high, is continuous through the whole body, and then that becomes your baseline. So it’s not like you have to take a day off from work because- Yeah

you’re stoned on your own ecstatic energy. You can’t get- Mm-hmm … out the door. Right. It actually [00:23:00] becomes very harnessed- Mm … fueled. And, you know, for me, I- it’s made me a better businesswoman. It’s made me a better writer. It’s made me a better daughter. It’s made me- Mm … better with my finances. It’s just, it’s- Uh-huh

it’s very real because there is that access to the artistry, which I feel like is the level of mastery. Mm. You know? Mm-hmm. In e- every art, every part of life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. The more kind of fine-tuned your capacity is for listening for the energy, for how the energy wants to flow, for pleasure, which is for goodness, which is for abundance, which is for joy, it would naturally translate to all aspects of your life.

Absolutely. 100% does. It, yeah, we stop resisting- Mm-hmm … because actually we are resisting. So a lot of- Mm-hmm … orgasm, the model that we are familiar with is resistance model. Yeah. We’re resisting- Yeah … resisting, [00:24:00] resisting until we can’t resist anymore. And the same with life. I’m resisting, resisting, resisting love until I can’t anymore.

And then- Yeah … when I do it like that, as soon as love does land, I f- I’ve found the one. Right. And now I’m a fricking, like, I just explode all over them, and all of my unresolved trauma is now, “What?” Right. You know? And so when I learn these practices- Mm … I’m, I’m staying in this steady state of resilience, responsi- bility, responsivity.

Mm-hmm. And so when those gateways of my shame kind of pulling me back away from intimacy, I can navigate that and bring more riches to my relationship- Mm … as opposed to exploding on the person, you know? Yeah. Bumper. Yeah, I feel like what you’re describing is, uh, like it’s like whe- when we are open to the organic life force that we are, and [00:25:00] continually, like, meditate on what each opening or invitation allows, we will naturally be metabolizing things like shame, things like scarcity, things like, uh, you know, whatever, whatever wounding comes up because we’re actually with what is wanting to unfold as opposed to bottling it up and waiting for the one or, you know, what- whatever an event when it just, like, floods out and then you’re like, you’re drowning in this toxic thing that’s just too overwhelming.

So Dawn, I want to ask you, you know, for our listeners, I… To just give some practical concrete examples of what, like, a retreat or working with you looks like that cultivates not only the awareness of how good you can feel moment to moment, but also how to unravel and release that conditioning that, and the tension in the body that’s keeping us, preventing us from [00:26:00] that kind of state of, state of living?

I love it. This is such a great question because how does it happen? Mm-hmm. How does it happen when we’re doing one-on-one sessions with me, or we’re doing a group retreat? The practices themselves are genius in the way that they melt and dissolve the tensions that we’re holding in our body that keep us in a fixed relationship with our sexuality, whatever that is.

Hmm. You know, whether I’m having the big exclamation point kinds of orgasms, and those are great, but I sense there’s something more, or I feel like I’m disconnected from my partner during sex, but I wanna be connected- Hmm … during, to my partner during sex. All of that is being held in my body. Yes. It’s all held.

It’s all a way that I’ve locked in at some point. You know, I was in an, a car accident many, many years ago where I was hit by a van, and I was bicycling. And I did this, of course, as I was hit. Of course. And my body held that, and has held that. [00:27:00] And if I weren’t doing these practices and all the other things, millions of things, yoga- Mm-hmm

and everything else, gyrotonics, I love gyro- and everything that I do, I would be walking around, and y- we’ve seen this. Mm-hmm. Like this. Sure. This is sending a signal to everyone who meets me that I am closed here. Mm-hmm. And then that’s what I’m gonna attract, is that interaction- Right. Mm-hmm … over and over and over again, that, that backs me up, that it’s not safe to Open, right?

Mm-hmm. And so in the, what I love about the neo-tantra work is that it isn’t, it, of course I discuss these things and I teach verbally, but the body is gonna teach you. Mm. You are going to start to feel the release happening through your body- Mm … wherever you’re holding, and we all hold, we all hold every single day, by the way.

I- Sure … I’m clearing every single day. It’s not- Mm-hmm … there’s not an end point here. That’s right. So then [00:28:00] the bo- your body, when your body lets go of that tension, you will suddenly see, hear, smace, s- smell, taste, feel things that you couldn’t feel or smell or taste in a very long time. Yes. And that’s your teacher.

Yes, yes. That is your teacher. Mm-hmm. So I just bring you to the, I bring you to the gateway. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I bring you to the vestibule, vestibule. Mm-hmm. Right? Here you are. Mm-hmm. Now you don’t have the tension. Ah, what’s next? Yeah. What is possible for me? Mm-hmm. And then showing also, you’ll learn how to track sensation in your body.

Yeah. Really important. Mm. So many of us have been so focused on how is my partner feeling? Is my partner turned on? Is my partner going to leave me? Is, how am I doing? Am I taking too long? Am I weird? Am, what, uh, w- what time is my next appointment? You know, like- Mm … all of those things are happening, and so I [00:29:00] want, if I’m wanting, like, uh, you know, I’d really like to be in sex when I’m having it.

Sure. So those things, I don’t have to go in and say, “Okay, today we’re gonna do an exercise about being in sex,” except for yes, that is what we’re doing, ’cause I’m gonna teach you- How to locate sensation and stop labeling it, because labeling gets in the way, and tracking whatever sensation as it starts to move through the body, and how the body responds to that sensation.

Yeah. And what we feel when we don’t feel anything, and when it’s numb, and like- Mm-hmm … what does numbness feel like? ‘Cause that’s also a sensation. Totally. So I learned to track all of this- Hmm … which means I’m now mapping my physical body in my brain. Mm-hmm. My brain now has coordinates to experience more of the touch, and the pleasure, and the sensations, because there are so [00:30:00] many erogenous zones- Mm-hmm

that we can experience. So we open up that map. Hmm. We also learn how to breathe beneath the belt. Mm-hmm. You know, most of us are breathing just into the upper part of the lungs, and when we move lower, we’re moving into that oceanic, kind of octopus sort of breathing, where we start to feel the sensations of our- Hmm

pelvic floor and our genitals. And, and then this wants to guide us in our lives. Hmm. It’s kinda showing us, this is the kind of sex you wanna be having with yourself or with a partner. And, you know, I was just reading this Irish philosopher, Moriarty, and I love his work ’cause he says, you know, you can either live a life where you are enforcing your rules on your experience- Hmm

or you can live a life where the experience is teaching you about what it is- Mm … to be a human, and be a lover- Hmm … and be alive. Hmm. Mm-hmm. So by n- having this coordination, by learning how to sense sensations through the body, and how to breathe beneath the belt, and how to [00:31:00] feel more- We start to have the confidence or the courage to live life in response or experience ourselves in response to life- Mm-hmm

the sensations, how life is impacting me. We also learn how to communicate. We learn about how do I, uh, you know, bridge to the world. Mm-hmm. You know, and you notice my throat even got tight there, you know? Mm. How do I let the world see what it is that I’m feeling? I might not say it the right way. I might say it in a weird way.

People might think I’m weird. And so we learn how to also be witnesses and how to be a blank space for our partner to share whatever. Mm. And then explore that together. And we do ceremony. The ceremonies are so fun. I just sent an email today about the first time I heard about sex and ceremony. I thought, “Oh, God, what a way to ruin a good sexual experience, is to- Mm

make it a ceremony.” It sounded [00:32:00] like the worst idea I could ever imagine. And then what I learned after years and years with Margot and studying with teachers all over the world, is that ceremony means that we’re meeting. It’s a way, it’s a structure for meeting. It’s a space for meeting. Mm. We do… We, and you’ve experienced this with me, the pujas and where people come in together.

Mm-hmm. We create a space, and we move through the practices together. And we’re really, it’s an enactment. Ceremony is also ena- enactment of our deepest longings. And so this is breathing together, eye gazing. And it… Here’s what’s so funny, is that everybody says, “Are we gonna be naked?” Which makes me realize they really wanna be naked, but there’s some- Hmm

part, you know, inside of all of us that’s like, “I can’t be naked.” And so there’s no nudity or sexual contact in these introductory workshops. Mm-hmm. So just know that. And even in the sex- in the touch, you know, it’s always [00:33:00] consensual. There’s, I always give many different variations of how to do every single practice, because it’s not what we do, it’s how we do it Yeah.

What I’m hearing is it’s really the art of integration by sensing your senses. And I feel like a lot of what you shared before with the example of being hit, you know, on your, on your bicycle, like you’re holding this because it’s an experience that hasn’t been integrated. And you’re bringing presence and breath and attunement and feeling and, uh, and kind of metabolizing all of that so that the energy can flow and you can be responsive again.

I’m really glad you’re touching on the importance and the need of spending time with your own senses, with your own desires, with your own energy. Yeah, I feel like coming back to tantra, I’ve, I’ve always felt like tantra at its core is really the art of presence and the art of presence [00:34:00] with the, the aliveness that is.

And by following that and really being true and faithful to that, naturally tensions and past conditionings that are counter to that will unravel. And go circling back to what we were speaking of in the beginning, just the art of living in an orgasmic state, of exploring every kind of invitation of joy and spark of energy and aliveness kind of can lead to that life as an orgasmic state.

What I love about you is you are someone who uses your own body and your own life experiences as, as the lab. When you come up across a, a, you know, a, a tantric text that ex- excites you, you know, I feel like you really do these deep dives. What is it that you want to impart to people who are curious about exploring neo-tantra, but like you coming across that Margo Anand flyer in the beginning, would not have gone had it said neo-tantra?[00:35:00]

Like, to these people who, you know, are really curious about being truer to their sense of embodiment, power, desire, pleasure- Mm-hmm … but aren’t sure about the neo-tantra thing, what is it that you would– what kind of invitation would you, would you share with them? Oh my goodness, that is a huge question. I think I…

what I would say first is to… I would really encourage everyone to give it a try. Give it a try. I would say step in, schedule a session with you, and explore the holding in the body and the epiphanies, the gentle epiphanies that happen through the opening to come to a retreat. And if there’s anything that has sparked in you sort of a, “Oh, I’m curious,” in today’s talk, just to know that the space is very inclusive and there’s– I have attorneys, I have people in [00:36:00] finance, and doctors- Mm

and, and yogis, and like the whole, whole- Yes … just this, this really wonderful mix of people who want to live fully. Yes. So I would say, you know, someone once said to me, “You can’t learn ballroom dancing out of a book.” And you- Exactly … actually can’t really learn it on YouTube. No. You can get a good feeling for it.

Mm-hmm. But when you’re in the room and it’s being sparked off and it’s happening, um, you’re gonna have an experience. And neo-tantra is about having an experience of yourself in an environment that is very much designed to bring you into contact with the longing that you have that you might not even be speaking up about.

Mm-hmm. And that sexuality is a, a very natural part of life that deserves a lot more attention, and it is the fountain of youth. I am 65 years old. I am here to [00:37:00] tell you- Yes … that it is it is- Yeah … the fountain of youth. And so if that doesn’t encourage you, then come on. But also, having the relationships we dream of, because that’s our legacy.

Mm-hmm. Our legacy is the relationships that we have, the people that we touch. Mm-hmm. And this is a powerful way of doing that, um, that’s also really fun and, um, and interesting and scientific, and it stimulates the intellect and the body and the heart I love that. Dawn, I really love that it really d- you, you become a master of intimacy.

I feel like neo-tantra is a path to understanding what ails us as a species, right? The, the lack of belonging, and provides a path for understanding the nature of your nature, and really the nature of existence- Mm-hmm … in lovemaking, in intimacy, you know, whether that’s platonic intimacy or, or sexual intimacy.

Great. So I know you have, you have a [00:38:00] retreat coming up at the end of the month. Can you speak about how people can find you, and what are the offerings that people can- Mm … experience through your work? Absolutely. Thank you. And I just love that little synopsis there. You’re brilliant. Hm. You’re always so brilliant.

People can find me lots of different ways. I’m– I just finished my new website. I’m still adding to it, and I launched it, dawncartwright.com. Super easy. Great. Then I have my podcast, 325 episodes that are- That’s amazing … like, down the, like, rabbit holes. I have gone everywhere in this podcast. It is a full PhD in neo-tantra- Hm

on Patreon, Dawn Cartwright on Patreon. And then you can find me on Instagram, on Facebook. Those are also great places to, to connect with me, ’cause I’m there every week. Awesome. Awesome, terrific. Dawn, thank you so much for- Mm … allowing your life force to really [00:39:00] permeate through whatever past conditioning there was to release, and for sharing not only your light and radiance, but all of these practices, and for being the lab to, you know, explore these really effective practices before bringing it to your students and your audiences.

Because- Mm-hmm … I mean, I can’t imagine a more valuable gift to humanity. So thank you so much- Mm … for being you. Thank you. Same to you. Thank you for the work that you do in the world.

How is today’s interview landing in your body right now? Are there ways you fixated on orgasm as a destination in your intimacy? And what possibilities might open up by considering it as a doorway? Are there areas of tension in your body keeping you from your natural sexual [00:40:00] expression? And if so, how might you begin exploring them?

Links to Don Cartwright’s site, doncartwright.com, are in the show notes Thank you for listening to Your Body Remembers Pleasure. If this conversation supported you, a simple way to help this work reach more people is to leave a five-star rating or a brief review. You’ll also find more resources and teachings at raichun.com.

Until next time, take good care